The Mutiny -- question!
Okay, in The Mutiny and Retribution films, the evil captain falls down into the opening of the ship. Did anyone actually push him, or no? I really am not sure.

:applaud: Yes, the Great Debate!!! Did he or didn't he? Have at it, Jeep. Do you think Foster (ooops! Sawyer! I meant Sawyer!) was pushed? If so, by whom?

Omg, I thought for sure I'd get laughed at - I assumed this had already been discussed here at the forum. Well, I know in the film the guys are upset with the way the captain is handling the ship. I know that they had their little "meeting" just before the fall happened. Just looking at Horatio's character I would assume he isn't capable of bringing harm to someone. I slowed down the film several times and you really cannot see if someone pushed the captain over or not. Now in court the guys look real nervous. But on the ship they kept bringing up that if they took control of the ship and removed the captain of his title, they would find themselves in court. So I don't know!!! And at the end, when Kennedy is there dying while Horatio is at the foot of his bed, they bring it up. And then Pellew (sp?) comes to see Horatio and Horatio says that it shouldn't have ended like it did. Gahh!! What are your thoughts??

Naw, we're still quite new to this forum so it hasn't been discussed. But even over at the Horatians, the old-timers never mind when a newbie resurrects the discussion! I have freeze-framed the entire scene analyzing each sequence. I have determined by what cloudy forsenic evidence I could make out is that Sawyer wasn't pushed (sorry, I said Foster in my previous post ... I suppose I could change it, but I'm too lazy at the moment), he was pulled! Someone's hand is on his back and it appears to be helping him in his freefall down the hole by tugging the uniform. Then, there's the sillouette ... Archie or Horatio? It could be either. It certainly isn't Wellard.

Now I think the sillouette that we see is Horatio. When you freeze frame the film it does look like there is someone grabbing him. Hmm!! I don't think it was Kennedy. I've been so curious about this whole thing... I just knew someone here would have a definite answer for me ;)

I never noticed the pulling, but then I've never freeze-framed. Now I'll have to go back and take a look at the big debate. I'll have to spend time looking at Horatio. Drat! :wink: GG

"How did the captain come to fall?" This is a wonderful example of how the films and the book totally correspond, leaving everyone in doubt as to what happened and as to Hornblower's true character. One of Forester's genius strokes, and I'm glad they didn't succumb to the temptation to solve the mystery in the films. FloMo

"How did the captain come to fall?" "I think he must have overbalanced" You know when I first read this kind of topic at the... some forum, well I didn't get the joke. Now seeing the films it really is a question for eternal debate ;) and one never gets tired of it :) Maybe... it was the ship's ghost who pushed him?

I've always thought it was Horatio and that he did it for the welfare of everyone else on the ship. Archie knew this, which made his comment at the end all the more poignant: " Horatio - always so quick to give and slow to recieve."

From the miniseries, I always believed that nobody pushed Sawyer. We're shown Horatio's hand on the captain's back but he was already falling backwards. The book isn't any less ambiguous but I got the impression that Wellard pushed the captain and Horatio knew about it but kept silent (ie. covered for him).

Woohoo! The Great Debate! :D Here are my musings on the whole Sawyer issue. ;) -uHf

That's brilliant, usHHfan! thanks for the insight! Now I am even more convinced Horatio did it (despite the lack of proof!)