I thought Gina McKee was perfect in the role. Maybe it doesn't translate well to modern audiences, but during that time period Irene would have been the ideal woman, in both character and looks. June was more passionate but you see by Soames and even Phil's reactions to her that she was seen as being immature and almost vulgar at times. Irene was also under added pressure to act like a well brought up lady at all times due to her family's financial problems. June could get away with her behavior because her family was very well off and she had her grandfathers favour, but if Irene had of acted the same way she wouldn't have married well, if at all, and most likely would have ended up in the poorhouse. I'm not sure if anyone here has read the book, but Irene is a very passive and repressed character in Galsworthy's book. Your mention of Notting Hill makes me wonder whether it is Gina McKee who favours characters that can be described as demure, gentle, accepting or if there is something in her that make so that she is called to play such characters. She's played radically different characters in many films (The Zookeeper, Wonderland, El Misterio de Wells). She's a very versatile actress.

Jess, you made a good point. Perhaps we are making the mistake of looking at Irene with the eyes of modern audiences, but the story takes place in a time when women were expected to be passive and a demure attitude was what they showed to the world if they wanted to succeed socially.

Hi SusieD, I've asked myself the question of whether or not Phillip would have stayed with Irene had he not met his end. I have my doubts that he would have. -------- He might eventually have tired of Irene's outward reserve, and,even of her age------and have decided to move on to "greener pastures". After all, he charmed his way into Irene's life---what would stop him from eyeing someone else if and when the well went dry, so to speak? He had been a cad before, soooooooo.....(Anyway, it would make a great storyline for a continuing 'saga', wouldn't it?!!)

Susie and Ship - My feeling was Phil might stay with her because of the mutual love for the arts and that bond. He obviously thought she was pretty. From what I've read Irene was actually younger than Phil by a few years. She was not the older woman. That's one area where the casting of McKee caused some difficulty for me, because from the first I saw her, she acted and behaved older. Jess- I haven't read the book and you make a good point that McKee's Irene may be very much like the book Irene. The fault that I see, could very well not be McKee's, but the filmmakers. I have no doubt she is a very good actress and I liked her very much in Nottinghill. The problem I saw - was that in a book, you often get the opportunity to read about the inner life of a character or there are additional scenes written that would show both her passion and that being squelched by society and Soames. The filmmakers did not give her any scene in the beginning before meeting Soames where you see true joy or excitement, even in private before meeting Soames. Her passion is talked about, but not really seen until later episodes. Don't get me wrong - I don't think she was horrible in the role. It's that I think they did an excellent job with most of the other women like Joylon's second wife and Soame's Annette, even Winnifred showing a fuller woman with the contrast between their desires, passion and need to supress some of that for a "good marriage" and they were more minor characters. Since Irene was such an important character, I wanted something in the beginning to make me say "No! No! Don't marry Soames." Instead there are just a few rather cordial scenes where she decides she could not abide Soames. Overall, I enjoyed the series and the characters kept me involved.

Hey GG, I've had a bit of an "Aha! Moment" here. Didn't know Irene was younger than Phil. Maybe that would change things in my thinking a little..................hmmmmm, will ponder that.....I DO very much agree with your last two paragraphs.

I'm not sure if anyone here has read the book, but Irene is a very passive and repressed character in Galsworthy's book. Ah, thanks Jess, no i wondered about that! I have no doubt she is a very good actress and I liked her very much in Nottinghill. I liked her in Notting Hill too GG, but I have not been so lucky to see her in any other movies.Jess has obviously seen more of her work to judge. Since Irene was such an important character, I wanted something in the beginning to make me say "No! No! Don't marry Soames." Instead there are just a few rather cordial scenes where she decides she could not abide Soames. Ah yes, that has hit the nail on the head GG! And your point about the other women is valid. It is at the mercy of the scriptwiriters and the director as to what is brought out or not in each character. By the way GG, the writers strike has finally surfaced as "newsworthy" here. How is it all going? Any end in sight? I believe it has brought TV shows to a standstill. And thanks Shipmate, i wondered whether anyone else saw that posibility. Maybe GG can write that into some continuing/retrospective Forsyte scripts ? I loved Ioan in the role as Bossiney, but I always feel disappointed in a sense too. I guess cos we all just love him as the heroic and romantic lead! The Horatio or Wilberforce character who could never do wrong and is always so sensible and vulnerable and ...............passionate (well Bossiney was certainly passionate)..............and just so (sigh!!) gorgeous to look at. Am I in the ballpark? Susie

I haven't heard of any changes in the Writers' Strike, yet. The biggest problem is image - it seems many people believe all writers earn tons of money because they hear of the big bucks one writer gets for a blockbuster, but most get paid far less or have great periods of no income. At issue is whether or not the writer should be able to get a residual on down-loads and DVD's, since that is the direction things are going, it could be an even bigger deal in a few years. Funny how most of us just assumed Irene was the older woman. I kind of felt she was at least ten years older than June, but knowing she was around 23 when she met Bossiney, it really makes June and Irene contemporaries. Anyway, glad to see my suggestion of needing an additional scene makes sense. I always take a critical look when something doesn't fit for me, because I feel it helps so I don't make the same mistake and improves my own writing.

That probably plays a big part in that assumption. Also Damian Lewis as Soames though he is only two years older than Ioan seems much older, particularly in the role of Soames, which I think adds to the illusion that Soames and Irene are an older couple.

Here are some of the birth/death dates from the Forsyte Family Tree that I found: Soames *1855 Irene *1863 Annette *1880 Fleur *1901 Old Jolyon *1806 +1892 Young Jolyon *1847 +1920 June *1869 Jolly *1878 +1900 Holly *1900 Jon *1901 Winifred *1858 Monty *unknown Val *1880 Imogen *1882 James *1811 +1901 Emily *1831 Aunt Ann *1799 +1886 Aunt Juley *1814 Aunt Hester *1815 George *1856 Bosinney was born in 1860.

Thanks Frances for putting that in a concise form. One thing I couldn't figure out was where George fit in the family tree. He seemed was too young to be Old Joylon and James' brother, yet not Young Joylon or Soames brother. Was he Swithin's son?

In fact, Soames and Winifred are siblings and James' children and Young Jolyon seems to be an only child (Old Jolyon's son and June's father), so George must be Swithin's son.

That was kind of the direction that I was thinking and no marriage, no children. Just found out last night that "That Forsyte Woman", the 1949 version of The Forsyte Saga was the first movie my parents went to together.

How nice to learn that the first movie your parents went to together is another version of a series that you would have watched and loved years later. There is at least another adaptation of John Galsworthy's novels: a BBC's dramatisations dating to 1967.

There is at least another adaptation of John Galsworthy's novels: a BBC's dramatisations dating to 1967. Yes my husband remembers his parents being hooked on that one. frances, where did you get those dates from? They really put it into perspective. So Soames was certainly older than Irene by 8 years. Bossiney was 3 years older than Irene and 9 years older than June. I thought Imogen was born before Val? Susie