How are YOU feeling?

Just wondering about something. Recently, as I mentioned earlier, we had to do autobiographies at school and one of the topics was friends which caused a tad of drama with many teenage girls as they realised that they weren't as good a friends as they thought they were when they saw they were left off the friendship lists of their 'pals'. The thing is, a girl in my year put me down as one of her best friends and went on about how good I am at giving advice and what kind of listener I am and everything, but...I didn't put her down... Last weekend, her and I went and stayed at our mutual friends place and she made me feel really awkward by saying we'll be 'Best Friends For Life' and all that stuff when I don't actually consider her a good friend of mine. This is a girl who got me suspended from school last year, who got a girl after me to try and beat me up and who, on numerous occasions, has dissed me or my appearance or (lack of) relationship status. Tell me, am I all right in not actually liking her as much as she likes me? Do I have a right to be resentful of her, should I be feeling guilty that she considers me a great friend of hers and I actually cannot stand her??

Frances that's also very true. But that's what our brains do. It's kinda like being in a book club don't you think? You can read a story and have one viewpoint, but then talk to someone else who read the same book, but got something totally different out of it. That's kinda the point though right?? Yes, exactly. Religion is like a book that different people can read with different eyes and get out different things from. I think that what matters is when it comes to religion is to keep an open mind and do not stop at the surface. Last weekend, her and I went and stayed at our mutual friends place and she made me feel really awkward by saying we'll be 'Best Friends For Life' and all that stuff when I don't actually consider her a good friend of mine. This is a girl who got me suspended from school last year, who got a girl after me to try and beat me up and who, on numerous occasions, has dissed me or my appearance or (lack of) relationship status. Tell me, am I all right in not actually liking her as much as she likes me? Do I have a right to be resentful of her, should I be feeling guilty that she considers me a great friend of hers and I actually cannot stand her?? I know the feeling, Kaitlyn. I had a couple of schoolmates who kept referring to me as a good friend of theirs when we weren't actually friends. However, I guess you can talk to this girl and point it out to her that she made you feel awkward when she referred to you as a good friend of hers after she had proved spiteful towards you on other occasions.

The thing is, a girl in my year put me down as one of her best friends and went on about how good I am at giving advice and what kind of listener I am and everything, but...I didn't put her down... Tell me, am I all right in not actually liking her as much as she likes me? Do I have a right to be resentful of her, should I be feeling guilty that she considers me a great friend of hers and I actually cannot stand her?? Hi, Kaitlyn: It could be that your friend is trying to reach out and make it up to you, but based on her past behavior, I think you're right to question her current intentions. Friendships are often a little unbalanced, with one person needing or wanting "more" at any particular time, so it's OK if you just feel like you don't like her as much as she says she likes you right now. But if you really can't stand her, then it might be better to step back a little from the relationship. If you need to maintain a polite association because of mutual friends/activities, you might talk to her as Frances suggests. Maybe you could start by saying that you're flattered that she thinks of you as a good friend but that you're surprised based on your past experience. You can then judge by her reaction whether or not you want to continue the relationship. BTW, I think the "nature of friendships" is interesting and appropriate for a class discussion, but the exercise of making and sharing friendship lists seems inappropriate and only destined to be hurtful. Was this part of the assignment? Take care, FloMo

Hey Kaitlyn, in reference to your comment about "true Australian", same goes for us Americans. Yet we can't rid ourselves completely of groups such as the KKK among other "white supremisist" groups. I laugh at them because if they really did any kind of research at all, they'd probably find some type of "non-white" blood in there somewhere. And in all honesty, I really don't think even in Europe anybody's pure anything are they?? Especially England - isn't the same there as it is here?? Big melting pot of cultures?? As for your friendship thing, I will get to reading that as soon as I can. It's hard when I'm here at work, but I'd like to read all of what you wrote and respond.

Hey Kaitlyn, in reference to your comment about "true Australian", same goes for us Americans. Yet we can't rid ourselves completely of groups such as the KKK among other "white supremisist" groups. I laugh at them because if they really did any kind of research at all, they'd probably find some type of "non-white" blood in there somewhere. And in all honesty, I really don't think even in Europe anybody's pure anything are they?? Especially England - isn't the same there as it is here?? Big melting pot of cultures?? Exactly! That is so right. It just really does not make sense that there are stupid things like racism when the good majority of racists would have the very blood they are disgracing in them. You know what it really reminds me of?? Harry Potter. The whole full blood/half blood/muggle born/blood traitor thing and how even the leader of those extremists isn't even pure blood. Honestly, I could speak for days about racism and discrimination. I did a speech recently on the Holocaust and actually made someone cry :cool: I felt so bad... Thanks for your advice Flo and Frances, it was much appreciated. Flo, it wasn't compulsory to go show your lists around to everyone but it was a part of your autobiography that you had to do; the teachers were the only ones who were going to read them. BUT, friends would ask friends if they could look at their autos and they would turn straight to the friends lists (kind of like kids to their...I don't know, final school results or something?) and hope to see their names their and would take a snoop at what was said about them. That's how all the drama spread because it became obvious who were the real friends and everything.

And in all honesty, I really don't think even in Europe anybody's pure anything are they?? Especially England - isn't the same there as it is here?? Big melting pot of cultures?? Yep, it is increasingly difficult even in Europe to say (and it makes less and less sense trying to define, IMHO) what a true European (or British, French, Italian, German, Spanish, etc.) is when countries host people of several different origins.

Kaitlyn, I'm in complete agreement with you on the racism issue. I also happen to be half Hispanic, but fortunately have only ever had one experience of racism. Oddly enough, the guy was Jewish. Which, I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but here it seems many (not all so please don't get mad at me for generalizing cuz I'm not) Jewish people are rather racist. Which is rather ironic isn't it??? But I have a very good friend who is "mixed" - she's half white, half black. She told me how bad it was for her in school when she was younger. She never fit in with anybody - she was too white to hang out with the black kids; and too black to hang out with the white kids. Racism is something I cannot figure out. I've never been able to understand how anybody can judge another human being based on what they look like. And when you think of something like the Holocaust, and especially here in my country: slavery. I still can't understand how one group of people can think that another group of people should be thought of and treated as animals. That humans can be that disposable to another is outrageous to me. I just don't get it. Never did, never will. Out of curiosity, why did the person cry?? I mean, what particulary made the person get that affected by what you had to say?? As for your friend situation, I agree with Frances and Flo. I would not be so trusting given past experience. Maybe try talking to her about where she's coming from since you both have mutual friends. But don't get too close. Always follow the motto: keep your friends close, your enemies closer. You can be cordial and such, but I'm pretty certain she threw away her opportunity to be a good friend to you when she almost got you expelled and beaten up. That's not a friend. Frances - that's exactly my point. Same has always been said about America since its origins began with "immigrents". But countries in Europe have increasingly become the same type of melting pot America has always been.

Kaitlyn, I'm in complete agreement with you on the racism issue. I also happen to be half Hispanic, but fortunately have only ever had one experience of racism. Oddly enough, the guy was Jewish. Which, I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but here it seems many (not all so please don't get mad at me for generalizing cuz I'm not) Jewish people are rather racist. Which is rather ironic isn't it??? Very ironic. You would think that given the mans religion and what his religion had to go through that he would be among the most against racism. Unless they feel they have a right to discriminate as revenge for them being discriminated against...Wow, that really surprises me that Jews can be racist. But I have a very good friend who is "mixed" - she's half white, half black. She told me how bad it was for her in school when she was younger. She never fit in with anybody - she was too white to hang out with the black kids; and too black to hang out with the white kids. Racism is something I cannot figure out. I've never been able to understand how anybody can judge another human being based on what they look like. Well, it has become a part of society nowadays to judge people on their appearance; whether it be racist or otherwise. It's branched from racism into just a general thing; if you don't look a certain way people don't want to be around you, not necessarily because of race. People have just become so obsessed with appearance that to be beautiful it seems that you have to fit this stupid stereotype and that stereotype seems impossible. And when you think of something like the Holocaust, and especially here in my country: slavery. I still can't understand how one group of people can think that another group of people should be thought of and treated as animals. That humans can be that disposable to another is outrageous to me. I just don't get it. Never did, never will. That is so mirroring my thoughts, you wouldn't believe! Out of curiosity, why did the person cry?? I mean, what particulary made the person get that affected by what you had to say?? That would be, this (I think she was just surprised that a student from her crappy school could come out with something that is relatively intelligent :roll: LOL): "...I have never been in the presence of such a captivating and heart-wrenching person in my whole life. I feel obligated to educate people my age about what went on in those terrible years and how extreme racial discrimination can be. I wish to bring all prejudice and racial discrimination down to its knees and try to exterminate it just as Hitler and his many Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and I will feel I have not lived until I know I have tried my hardest to make a difference in regards to these terrible social injustices. The fact that this could happen in the modern day world never ceases to amaze me. Some humans, who are supposed to be the most intelligent of living things, acted like animals and performed acts of such high cruelty that it seems unreal. Impossible. Let’s not let anything like this happen again. At the end of the day, did the Nazis gain anything from their horrendous attempts? Did it help or endear them to anyone? Exactly. It’s not worth it." You can be cordial and such, but I'm pretty certain she threw away her opportunity to be a good friend to you when she almost got you expelled and beaten up. That's not a friend. True, that's not. Thanks for the advice :hug

Wow Kaitlyn! You are quite prophetic. That was pretty powerful. But that's how I have always felt whenever we learned about the Holocaust or slavery. And of course the Jewish and black people in my country were not the only ones to have felt this kind of discrimination. Unfortunately, they were the ones most prone to it for some reason. I'll never understand it. And I think that's a good thing. I've always been accepting of others and their backgrounds. I was never raised to judge anybody by their beliefs or the color of their skin. I never came home talking to my mom about my "black friend" so and so. Or my "white friend" so and so. They were always "my friend ___". The odd thing is that with all these movements of tolerance and civil rights and such, we seem to have gone in the opposite direction. Again, I can only speak for America here. But once upon a time there was no equality for people of races or religions other than white/Catholic/Pro-*test*-('")ant - respectively. And then the 1960's came about with social reform and cries for change - led, of course, by one of the bravest men in American history: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. But now, people here have seem to have strayed away from even Dr. King's vision. The very people he fought and gave his life to help, the very society he worked so hard to change did change, but now we're no better today than when we were separating the blacks from the whites in public places. A concept I still don't understand to this very day either. Yet, there seem to be so many in the black American community that want just that. To be separated from white people. They seem to have gone away from Dr. King's teachings and straight for Malcolm X's. It's very sad. As for that one Jewish guy I spoke of, I don't think it's all Jewish people. Because to be honest, until this happened, I never saw that for myself. And I've been friends with many Jewish people through the years. So it took me by surprise. But I also happened to work for some Jewish people who were of the same mindset. You're always going to have your "special cases" in every group, maybe they're not the norm?? Maybe the people I knew who weren't racist are the norm?? I don't know, but I have to say that it did not feel good what this guy did. It really does make you feel less than human, like some piece of garbage. Definitely something I would never want somebody else to ever feel. It's horrible. Have you ever read a book called TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD? If you haven't, I highly recommend it. It's excellent! The movie was fantastic too. I grew up watching this movie before I ever read the book. It was part of our English reading lessons when I was in high school. It's a book that should be read by all American children in my personal opinion. This book has such an amazing and simplistic view on injustice and how things worked (and still to an extent do) in our society once upon a time. If you haven't read it yet, please do. I think you'll really enjoy it.

Interesting conversation Kaitlyn and Gnat . Hope you don't mind my two bits. TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD is a great recommendation, Gnat. It has had a place on my bookshelf since my teens when I read it in school. I lived in North Carolina in the early 60's and remember some underlying rules of societal oppression toward blacks (or Negros as they were refered to then) during that time frame. I remeber a couple of us stopping on our bikes to say hello to the black mantainence men in our apartment complex and being told that we really shouldn't do that. Thank goodness I had parents who felt strongly against racism and taught us to treat everyone with respect. My dad was in the military so most of the school's we attended had a mix of races and we were all in the same boat as far as our fathers being put at risk during Vietnam, so that helped create a bond. However, people being people, we still managed to create some labeling and segregation; on bases classification had more to do with if you Dad was an officer or enlisted. Officers lived in a different area with better housing and in one area we rode a different bus to school. No enlisted kids were allowed at the Officers Club pool, etc. Which is kind of a sad commentary. On the positive side, most other activities like girl scouts, softball, the movies, church or horseback riding rentals were avaliable to anyone. It seems as individuals we can try to be accepting of everyone, but I fear society will always find some way to catagorize and judge. As you two have said we are all a mix of many different backgrounds and we need to remember that before we judge each other. GG

Have you ever read a book called TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD? If you haven't, I highly recommend it. It's excellent! The movie was fantastic too. I grew up watching this movie before I ever read the book. It was part of our English reading lessons when I was in high school. It's a book that should be read by all American children in my personal opinion. This book has such an amazing and simplistic view on injustice and how things worked (and still to an extent do) in our society once upon a time. If you haven't read it yet, please do. I think you'll really enjoy it. I second this recommendation. "To Kill A Mocking Bird" is one of my favourite books ever.

GG you couldn't have put it any better. It is unfortunate that people will always label those whom they deem "different" than the norm. It is a sad statement that even as human beings supposedly evolve in their mindsets, this is still something that sets us back centuries.

I'm so sorry it took me so long to respond to your posts Gnat and GG. I know I've been posting in other threads besides this one but I have been really incapable of any heavy thinking lately, too much worrying. So I've stuck to the lighter threads. Oh well, here I am now! Sorry if you guys are over the discussion. GG, it was great to have you join in too. And of course the Jewish and black people in my country were not the only ones to have felt this kind of discrimination. Unfortunately, they were the ones most prone to it for some reason. I think the levels of discrimination for certain races rises and falls depending on the country. The worst here is for Asians and Aborigines, people automatically think Aborigines are crackpots and they automatically assume Asians are terroists and will blow us up. I can't believe that some people have fed these ridiculous beliefs to us, it's nuts, these beliefs have to have come from someone and what makes it worse is that some of our politicians come out with ridiculous comments themselves which makes people think it's an okay thing to do. Then, of course, there are the people who feed an unrealistic belief into us and make us think Australians are so accepting and so fantastic to different races and religions, what a load of crap that is. Pardon the language. The next bit of what you said about MLK and stuff was way over my intelligence level so I don't want to answer it incase I come off sounding ridiculous, but I will answer this bit: Yet, there seem to be so many in the black American community that want just that. To be separated from white people. They seem to have gone away from Dr. King's teachings and straight for Malcolm X's. It's very sad. I am familiar with MLK's vision, I actually watched his 'I Have a Dream' speech the other day because I wanted to know what the fuss was over, but I am not familiar with Malcolm X's which is why I just typed it up in google. :wink: I'll respond again later when I know about Malcolm X. I have wanted to read TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD for ages but my school doesn't have it available except in class sets and it won't let me get a copy out of the class set box. Which sucks. I'll get the movie out though. Okay GG, what you said was fantastic but went way over my head and I don't know how to respond to that either. I'm sorry!!

W And then the 1960's came about with social reform and cries for change - led, of course, by one of the bravest men in American history: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. But now, people here have seem to have strayed away from even Dr. King's vision. The very people he fought and gave his life to help, the very society he worked so hard to change did change, but now we're no better today than when we were separating the blacks from the whites in public places. A concept I still don't understand to this very day either. Yet, there seem to be so many in the black American community that want just that. To be separated from white people. They seem to have gone away from Dr. King's teachings and straight for Malcolm X's. It's very sad. Gnat, this is very simplistic and not based on empirical evidence. The vast majority of racialized minorities in the US choose the assimilation route. It is a very small minority, and it always has been, that chose to separate from the larger society. The benefits of assimilating are just too great. However much they want to assimilate, they are still viewed as distinct races. The Cherokee in the 1840's for example were among the most assimilated Native peoples, but when the whites expanded westward, they forcibly removed them from their homes in the infamous Trail of Tears. And if you think that is just history, then consider a recent joke Chris Rock made, along the lines of, "how many of you would trade your white skin for my millions." As for the supposed difference between Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, this is largely a media creation. Both were working for the same thing, racial equality. Both went through transitions in their lives. Martin, after the Civil Rights victories of the early 1960's, started working for economic empowerment of black people. He said along these lines: now that we got Blacks the right to sit at integrated lunch tables, we have to get them the economic means to live there. Malcolm, who always called for economic empowerment of Blacks (which is why he initially called for separation), shifted his position to a more integrationist stance after returning from his pilgrimage to Mecca. Interestingly, there were two men who represented a similar dichotomy a generation earlier: WEB DuBois and Booker T. Washington. DuBois called for total integration of Black people as equals with Whites. Washington felt that the most Black people could achieve was blue collar and artisan jobs, so he called for their continued separation. It was Washington who was lauded as the visionary, and DuBois who was the radical. DuBois spent time in prison in his eighties for his political views, became disgusted with the US and left for Ghana. where he became a citizen at the age of 95. I have a lot more to say about your post, but I don't have time, and if you are interested I will continue it in a later post. GinaP :cool:

Ok! Don't know where else to put this, but I always seem to be just ready to sign off and hit the bed when someone from the other side of the world signs on. Tonight it is Sylvianne and the other night it was Frances and it's been StevieT and others on different nights. Just want to say GOOD MORNING! Have a cup of :coffee while I go off to :snooze . Hope your day is wonderful. Good night and :hug for the day, GG

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