Hey Kaitlyn, I agree with GG and Frances. I do come from a family that has grown up in the church so I'm actually opposite of you. Not that I've turned from God or my faith, but I'm not quite "active" as the rest of my family. I have my belief system and I feel that the rest of it is really between me and God anyway. And how you feel about Christianity is how I feel about atheists. I just can't wrap my brain around not believing in something bigger than me and this life. And I'm not berating anybody's beliefs, I'm just stating my opinion here. But especially in my life, I have to believe there is a God and that He's watched over me. I wouldn't be here without Him. As for your family, if they love you, they should accept you no matter what you believe. And for all you know, you might just be the one to lead them to Christianity or church or whatever. I know you're young and feel like you have to live under your family, but it won't be that way forever. And always remember - we're here too sweets! :hug If you ever have any questions, concerns, doubts or anything - always know that you can come to any of us to help and encourage. PM me too if you'd like!

Kaitlyn, I am an atheist, but have always encouraged my kids to find out for themselves. They used to complain about having to do RE at school, when they didn't believe and I always replied that they couldn't make up their minds about religion in general if they didn't know anything about it.(RE in our school is about learning about all the worlds different religions, to foster tolerance, as well as about ethical, moral and personal issues.) My children have not been baptised (their father is an agnostic) and that too will be their own decision to make. I have tried to teach them that basic human values are important; whichever god or no you believe in, you should treat people with respect and consideration. Kaitlyn, I'm sure your parents won't mind you learming more about religion. I hope they listen to you and don't try to force their beliefs on you. If they do, is there anyone else you trust to talk to about this? The minister of any local church would most probably be happy to speak to you in confidence and answer some of your questions. In the UK, i've seen adverts for something called the Alpha Course, which is a Christian based course for young people like yourselves, who are trying to find their way; does Australia have anything like this? Lots of good vibes to support you on your quest. :hug

Kaitlyn, Just a quick congradulations on being placed in the higher level reading group. It may take a little more work, but I'm sure you will do well and it will benefit you in the long run. So, :applaud: from me. GG

First of all, thanks for all your supportive and helpful comments. Sylviane Kaitlyn, if you wish to embrace christianity it is your own choice. But, personally, I hope you will also look into other religions. I agree with StevieT when she said "whichever god or no you believe in, you should treat people with respect and consideration." Well, yes you and Stevie are right but I don't really understand what you said seeing as I wasn't slighting another religion or not agreeing with another religion I was just saying I wanted to be of a certain religion. I know that I have to respect people no matter what they choose to be in regards to religion and what they are in regards to race and I do my best to follow that and try to get others my age to do the same. I don't care about what other people's religions are, I look beyond it, I was saying in my original post that a movie has influenced me in that I want to be of the religion that was practised in it; I won't go and be a religion that isn't really what I want to be; it's prefectly fine for someone to be Catholic or Jewish or Muslim but it's not my ideal religion so I won't go for it. Others can and I'm more than happy for them to but other religions just don't seem to be the right ones for me; that's all. Unfortunately a lot of people get so convinced of their being 'right' in their personal belief and just want to shove it down my throat, whether I'm interested or not. And so feel that they are better than me, because I don't go to church and.. sigh... I think I better stay out of the conversation. Well I don't know what happens to you in your day to day life but it's not what I was trying to do at all, it's an open forum and this is an open thread and if you don't like that religion is being discussed you don't really need to read my messages or other peoples responses if you upsets you. :hmm: Stevie:If they do, is there anyone else you trust to talk to about this? The minister of any local church would most probably be happy to speak to you in confidence and answer some of your questions. In the UK, i've seen adverts for something called the Alpha Course, which is a Christian based course for young people like yourselves, who are trying to find their way; does Australia have anything like this? Thanks for your help Stevie :hug and yes, Australia does have a thing like the Alpha Course, I actually think it goes by the same name. Whenever I walked past the church as a little kid I was fascinated by the Alpha sign because the picture on it was so weird, one day I looked closer at it and realised it was a man holding a question mark and suddenly the sign wasn't so enchanting. LOL. I'll look into it, I still have yet to discuss this with my parents; I'm searching for the right words. By the way Stevie, do you remember how I told you all about that boy situation at all? Well if you do, it might interest you to know I spoke to him again for the first time in ages the other day and he seemed pretty chuffed to hear from me. Haha. Gnat: Hey Kaitlyn, I agree with GG and Frances. I do come from a family that has grown up in the church so I'm actually opposite of you. Not that I've turned from God or my faith, but I'm not quite "active" as the rest of my family. Hi Gnat :-) Thanks for you interesting response, it was very useful. It actually made me wonder about how active I want to be, I mean, I don't want to be like the Flanders' on the Simpsons but I don't want to just be a Christian in name. Does that make sense? I'm trying to figure out at what level I want to be with my religion. I don't want to take it too far and let it control me and that's probably something I should be wary of, wouldn't you say? If you ever have any questions, concerns, doubts or anything - always know that you can come to any of us to help and encourage. PM me too if you'd like! Thanks :hug I will PM you, by the way, because I want to discuss Harry Potter :happy But if I do have any questions I'll come to you. Sorry if it gets annoying, LOL. And finally, thanks to all of you who answered my post about the reading group! :hug :hug

Kaitlyn I do get what you're saying. Trust me!!! If there's anything I've discovered in my time on this Earth (that sounds funny :mrgreen: ) it's that you have to find what brings you peace. I'm not the type of person to "shove my beliefs down people's throats" and I don't let traditions of religion rule my life. I actually don't believe in "religion", I believe in God. I do what I can and I stand firm in my beliefs. If someone wants to know what I believe they can ask. I have no problems with talking about that. But I also understand that not everyone believes what I believe or will agree with me. And I respect them for it. It's what makes us human beings. It's what separates us from the animals really. Our decision making abilities - not just living on basic instincts. I don't know if that helps you with what you asked....... :lol: I'm trying to give you an answer and not sound preachy or condiscending. Or, well, long winded, but I think I've already done that. :blush2: As for the PM thing, you can't be too annoying for me. Especially in the matters of Harry Potter!! :wink: Which by the way, if I was "steeped in religious traditions" I wouldn't be a fan of. Ooh it's magic!!!! Awww!!!!! Stirring :shock AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Kaitlyn, sorry if you misunderstood what I was saying, by Sylvian's quote of my words. Really, I was just saying that I've tried to teach my children that everyone deserves dignity, consideration and respect, as basic human rights, whatever their religion/beliefs and that I personally haven't needed a religion to follow this code or pass it on (hopefully). It is my message to my kids - I wasn't suggesting in any way that you weren't behaving this way. soul-searching begins when we're young and for me has become a life-long habit. I know what it's like to be on the recieving end of religious bigotry. People have told me more than once that I have no conscience to stop me killing, stealing and cheating other people if I have no God. My answer is that i don't do these things because my own conscience, given to me by my atheist parents, tells me they are wrong. I suppose what I'm saying is we each have our own code, wherever the beliefs originate from. It is the building of that code that's the difficult part. i hope you find an interesting way to do it, Kaitlyn :hug Oh and good news about the boy! :applaud: Was we right, or what?????

I apologise to anyone offended by my words. Yes, religion is a heated topic of conversation. Please let me repeat what I said in the Cats or Kittens thread: Speaking from my own experience I turned my back on the (Roman-Catholic) church, because of the way it says one thing and does the other, particularly on the subject of the child-abuse that happened and people in high places knowing about it and looking the other way... :rant: :wall: ... It robbed me of my faith in God for many years. Until I realised that the church and God are two seperate entities. The church is a human institution and therefore flawed by human emotions. And I need not go there to speak to God. As God is everywhere, I can speak to God anywhere I very well please. Whether in a church or on the subway or in my room. And God will listen even if my wishes will not always be granted or my pain not always subsided. I will never call myself a Christian, but this does not mean I don't believe in God, for I have personally experienced God's love when I desperately needed it. All alone in my car crying behind the wheel, knowing that the next day I'd have to go to the hospital to hear the results on my daughter's open-heart surgery, I prayed to God, asking for a sign that things would turn out positively. Turning around the corner, before me appeared the most shining, most beautifully sparkling rainbow I ever saw, while at same time I felt myself being warmed and held and comforted with so much tenderness.... It's been 3 years now and Iris's situation is stable. No, I will never doubt God again, even though we still have heated arguments about things, but I don't doubt that God is listening. Eventually, whatever my personal belief or your's or anyone' else's opinion of it: In the end God will look at my soul and God alone will judge whether I have been good or bad and, hopefully, see that in many bad decisions I may have made, my heart was in the right place. I have only seen Amazing Grace yesterday for the first time and was touched by the moment in which Wilberforce lies in the grass and wants to talk to God, because I recognise that. I never meant to hurt anyone's feelings. I feel very strongly about God and what happened to me that day in the car. But I don't go on and on about it. I would not have told anyone here if I had not felt it important for my statement in that thread. Yet, when I tried to tell this to my best friend she became very angry with me. Telling me that she would really hate it if I would return to the Roman Catholic church (which I never implied I would) and that she felt it was like a 'betrayal' to her. I was stunned! I merely tried to convey my feelings about a very special moment in my life. And she uses the word 'betrayal'? ...How... vitrolic! :wacko: She, btw, is practising witchcraft. (And witches and the R-C church have never been close :cold: ) And I am happy for her that she feels comfortable with that. But she wants to attribute my experience to a Goddess or Mother Nature or at least something female. And when I tried to explain that in my view God is not male, nor female, but simple IS (yes Wilberforce, also in a spider's web :wink: ). She got angry with me again. :wall: :wall: For the sake of our 29 years of friendship we have agreed to disagree on the matter and allow eachother to have heated discussions on this matter. But I respect her and she respects me in spite of our different opinions. Kaitlyn, I'm sorry, I never meant to imply that you were not respectful to others, quite the opposite, I tried to convey my hope that you will continue to do that, because I have seen people change their personality for their religion and not always for the better. :???: In general: With my remark about giving other religions a chance I meant that, after I turned my back on the RC church I started to read about all these things that you are not allowed to believe in... UFO's, Bermuda triangle, witchcraft, cults, tao, hindu, budism and naturally my favorite, Erich von Däniken, his books I devoured. If you ever can put your hands on his book 'Erscheinungen' (Apparitions) read it! A part of that book is about how the RC-church came to be as it is now... You'd laugh aloud if it wasn't so sad... :no no. I found valuable insights in a lot of different beliefs, but at the same time, also found a lot of things I question, disagree with and am oppose to. :dunno Guess I just haven't found what I'm looking for: A nametag to put to my particular belief in God. Love all of you, whether you agree with me or not. :hug :hug

Hey Syl, I completely understand what you're saying. And I agree 100% with churches being separate from God. And that one doesn't necessarily need to go to or belong to a church in order to talk to God. I do believe that ministers who are faithful to God and His Word would and should never stray from it. However, human nature is human nature. And often times it does get the best of us. And please by no means think that to be an excuse for what's been happening in the Catholic church - because it's not. They broke the law and many childrens' hearts. And for that there should be justice. I'm more talking about those who would look down on or judge people for whatever mistakes they make. This has very recently happened in my own family with churches some of us have belonged to. And it is enough to turn anybody away from God and one's own beliefs. I don't live my life based on what some man has said is right or wrong. I go by what and how God wants me to go. And like you said Syl, in the end it's only between you and God anyway. Stevie - I don't believe you have to belong to any faith or religion or whatever, nor does one have to believe in God or not in order to have a conscience. The laws of right and wrong is something that should be passed on from parent to child. There have plenty of "so-called Christians" that have committed way worse crimes and these people are supposed to have been brought up in a Godly way. So go figure. In my life, I have found that it's the people who are either non-believers in God or who aren't "practicing their faith" (I can't think of a better term than that right now) that are the better people. I'm not one to be preached to unless I am sitting in church. That's the minister's job, in my opinion. I don't need anybody to tell me that how I live my life is right, wrong or otherwise. And I do have a conscience, not because I'm a Christian and believe in God - but because I know what's right and what's wrong. Some of which because is obvious (stealing, murdering, etc.) and some because of my own personal consequences and how I feel by doing wrong to somebody. That, too, is part of being human. At the end of the day, we're all imperfect human beings. Bottom line. Kaitlyn, I know this is all probably got you so turned around and very confused, but one thing is for certain - don't ever let anybody tell you that you're a bad person and that you can't ever be right. I dont' care who the person claims to be. You seek out your own truth, babe. You'll find it, and you'll know it's right. Just like Syl's story of the rainbow after praying for her daughter. That's generally as simple as it is to find truth.

I was planning on answering responses in this thread a lot quicker than I actually did but I have been working non stop on a stupid autobiography for school that I had 15 weeks to work on, and only started in the last week. :roll: I haven't been able to do anything but that autobiography and it's nowhere near as good as I wanted it to be, haha. So, sorry it took me so long Stevie, Sylviane and Gnat but I got here in the end.:wink: I do what I can and I stand firm in my beliefs. If someone wants to know what I believe they can ask. I have no problems with talking about that. But I also understand that not everyone believes what I believe or will agree with me. And I respect them for it. It's what makes us human beings. It's what separates us from the animals really. Our decision making abilities - not just living on basic instincts. I don't know if that helps you with what you asked....... :lol: It did help Gnat, thanks for your response! The difference in religion and beliefs makes things more interesting and is a lot more realistic than every person following the same thing and believing the same thing. I can not imagine a world where beliefs were uniform and even though religion can cause terrible things like prejudice and cause horrific situations like the Holocaust, I would prefer to have various religions as oppose to just the one as I think the consequences of having people function on the one belief would be a lot worse than if there were many. I just made that the longest sentence ever.... :roll: LOL. Oh, and you think you were too long winded? Check out some of my posts, you just about have to print them on bible paper so that they don't take up so much space. :wink: As for the PM thing, you can't be too annoying for me. Especially in the matters of Harry Potter!! :wink: Which by the way, if I was "steeped in religious traditions" I wouldn't be a fan of. Ooh it's magic!!!! Awww!!!!! Stirring :shock AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! That PM will be on it's way within the next couple of days, I promise. Not that I think you are like, desperately hanging out for it or anything, but I look forward to discussing the ending to the series with you. :wink: Stevie, it's all right, I think I over-reacted in regards to poor Sylviane. I just wanted to add, I too have been on the recieving end of bigotry both with race and religion; I have muslim Grandparents and have had to put up with terrible comments being said both about them and about the religion at school, I also have Asian (Burmese) blood in me and have recieved racist comments for it because some of my appearance is obviously of a different culture. I have recieved racist comments on my lips, people were saying bad things about Africans, and about my eyes, people saying bad things about Asians. I think that may be one of the reasons why I feel so strongly about racism and discrimination. Sylviane, I am really sorry :hug I have a tendency to leap before thinking and it's something I should probably make an effort to change. What you said, and are saying, makes perfect sense and I'm sorry to have lashed out the way I did. Forgive and forget?

Frances that's also very true. But that's what our brains do. It's kinda like being in a book club don't you think? You can read a story and have one viewpoint, but then talk to someone else who read the same book, but got something totally different out of it. That's kinda the point though right?? My family's had to go through all that in recent years. Relearning a whole bunch of stuff in the church that had been taught in a completely twisted sort of (really oppressive if you ask me) way. My family's so much better for it too I think. Kaitlyn, I didn't realize how much of a "salad" you are!! Wow!!! By that I mean mixture. HAHAHA!!! I am too actually when you consider I'm Sicilian and which empire DIDN'T conquer the island of Sicily at some point?? :roll: Anyway, you know how to reach me for that PM. Anytime. It's no problem whenever you can get to it, that's totally fine. I understand you have school obligations that must come first. :wink: