Okay, well it has taken 100 different stops and starts to get my response to this thread because I really have been lost on what to say; write that on the calendar! Nursing should never be assumed to be a lesser form of doctoring; it is it's own science and incredibly rewarding. Forgive me, I never meant to make it seem like I was bringing down nursing. I wouldn't ever bring down nursing intentionally and I'm sorry if it seemed that way, I know nurses are heroes and deserve heaps of credit for what they do but so do doctors and yours, Hil's and GG's posts all seemed really harsh on doctors. They made me feel like you were implying doctors are cold-hearted and see people as objects, which I think is extremely unfair. They work extremely hard, as do nurses, they study extremely hard, as do nurses and they do the best they possibly can for sick patients as do nurses, but in a different way. I don't blame them for not spending a tonne of time with patients, I can't imagine how it would feel for them to lose a patient they get too attached to which is bound to happen. At the end of the day, their job is to diagnose patients and prescribe them medicines, not do the nurse stuff. It can hardly be held against them that they don't spend a tonne of time with families and patients. They can't afford to. They have other patients to diagnose and prescribe medicine to, so that the nurse can do the rest. Whichever path you choose has it's own rewards and pitfalls_ you'd make a brilliant nurse or doctor, Kaitlyn, because you care about people! Well going by what you and Hil say, I'd make a good nurse because I care about people. Doctors apparently work for the disease not the patient. Higher math concepts are not easy for most people. There are some who have the brain wiring right to have a complete grasp of higher math with little effort ... and they are artists. Not in the way you or I may think of art, but it is an art. I know it is an art, having a complete grasp on a specific subject is an art and makes the person an artist for that subject. And I agree with Stevie, don't think of nursing as a fall back. First of all, nurses are not sub-standard to doctors in their intellect and their schooling can be just as intense. Not as long and drawn-out, but very intense. Especially if one is going for what we call Registered Nurses here in the States. I'm sorry but I don't know how else to say, I wanted to try for medicine and then if I couldn't do medicine I'd try nursing because it is in the same field and although they are entirely different jobs, I wanted to do both. I thought I'd go for medicine first though because if I didn't I know I'd always wonder if I could do it, atleast if I start with it I will know whether or not I'm cut out for medicine. The decision between being a doctor and a nurse is more a matter of tempermant rather than intelligence. As Stevie said, a doctor treats a disease. He or she looks at a patient more as an object needing fixing. I really, really, really don't like that. And it is that very comment, and the next part I've quoted that has taken me so long to respond. Doctors can't spend alot of time with patients, they have packed schedules and have to get the diagnosis out of the way before anyone can do anything. They can't be around a patient for longer than is required, because others need to be diagnosed. It can hardly be held against them. They aren't cold-blooded, sterile people. They do have a heart. I realize there are many, many very compassionate doctors, but for their own sanity and productivity, seeing the patient as a "person" is not top on their priorities. So instead you think they see them as objects? Toys? I completely understand all the reasons why the doctors were not there holding our hands and helping us through the ordeal. I am grateful for people like Rick and Stevie who have "the calling." I am grateful for them too, but I don't believe doctors should be frowned upon for not being nurses at the same time. Figure out where your temperment lays, Kaitlyn, and choose the path the best fits your personality. Doctoring. I'd rather help a patient and make them better from further away then lose a patient that I was attached to. Thanks for your messages everyone. I spoke to mum about it and she said she'd get me a tutor.

Kaitlyn, I think everyone who posted in this thread is aware that a doctor's job is to diagnose patients and prescribe them medicines and we can all agree that it is that doctor get diagnoses and treatments right that counts at the end of the day. However, though doctors do not often have the time to be around their patients much, an extra word with them when it's possible would do wonders: patients are human beings and human beings like to be treated as such, especially when they're suffering. Actually, I think that one of the most common complaints I hear about hospitals is that patients feel like they were in an assembly line.

Kaitlyn, I'm sorry if I misled you about my opinion of doctors. I don't agree that they all see patients as objects (there are as many different prsonality types within medicine as anywhere else). I said they they treat the disease, not the person - this doesn't mean they don't care about the person or see them as human. It just means they have a different priority to a nurse. We have some extremely sensitive and caring doctors - I have seen as many of them in tears after losing a patient, as nurses. I think the difference hinges on the fact that a doctor can get away with being an arrogant dickhead, when he is good at his job (eg House), a nurse can't, because it is her job to be good with people, and dickheads tend not to be. I stand by my statement that you would make a good nurse or doctor, Kaitlyn, because you care - caring ought to be part of a doctor's make-up; it has to be part of a nurse's. Both are rewarding careers with much to be learned and many moral issues to be dealt with. Medicine is much more lucrative, but I would suggest neither is a career that one does for the money. Doctors and nurses need each other, especially in close units like PICU. A close professional relationship makes a team work. And we can party hard with each other too! :wink: - we all had a fab time together at the Unit's Christmas 'do' last night! :pink ellie :nurse :pink ellie I apologise if you thought I was getting at you, Kaitlyn :hug - it's just that the 'doctor's handmaiden' image still prevails in certain quarters and is guaranteed to raise a nurse's hackles! :angry2: No offence meant to you, my friend. Go for it! I look forward to hearing about your progress and exploits (How about The Med Student's Blog, when the time comes?)

Kaitlyn - I certainly didn't mean to imply that all doctors are cold and uncaring or that I didn't like them. When I was much younger, more General Doctors tended to be in private practice and could choose for themselves how much time they could spend with a patient. I think today, many would love to spend more time with patients. It is the system of insurance and numbers that need to be seen that often prevents that. I also think many potential Doctors go into the field because they have compassion for people. The way medical training is conducted can knock that out of some. Though they are talking about changing some of the procedures -such as no longer forcing doctors in training to work 24 hour shifts. My mention of my RNP was just to show that there are many options in the field of medicine that are worth investigating. When she knew I needed surgery, she refered to a Surgeon. He was kind, informative, inspired confidence, but was also very clinical. He did an excellent job fixing the injured part. He did explain things, but did not always have the time to answer all my questions, that fell to the Physical Therapist who spent more time with me and could explain things more thoroughly. If not for a good Physical Therapist, all of the Surgeon's work would have gone to waste. They all played an important part in my injury being repaired. I include in that the nurses in the recovery room who kept watch over as many as twenty post surgical patients. I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing Medicine. If that is what you want to do. Go for it. And you don't have to lose your compassion and caring for people to be a Doctor, but you may have to work harder to be able to keep it or practice it than in other areas of medicine, just because of the way they train doctors. Maybe you'll be one that you can break that mold or image. I'm glad to hear your Mom is willing to get you a tutor, so there is one step down and closer to your goal.

hi guys, I haven't messaged for ages cause i had nothing to say but lately no matter how good my day has been something by the end of it has spoilt it. today was the final straw. please note i have nothing against my neighbour or anyone drinking i like a few alcoholic drinks myself. Sitting at home tonight watching smokin aces (very good if a bit of a boy film) when i heard my neighbour come in the communal door and head upstairs to his apartment. i heard 2 voices outside and what i thought was rain (when it rains because of the slabs outside you can hear it in our living room) thought it strange that 2 people out in the rain so had a peak through the curtain and low and behold there is one of his friends having a pee up against my front window / wall underneath window. fuming ( note i had a good day today with my other half and no child managed to get my disgusting oven cleaned in peace) i went outside and asked him what was he playing at peeing on someone’s front step. he was obviously drunk (can still in hand) and said he was sorry i told him if he wanted to go and pee on someone’s doorstep to go home and pee on his own. I have nothing against people having a few drinks to enjoy themselves and i know most people know their limits it just really gets my goat that in Ireland they still think it is acceptable to drink themselves stupid, drive home and then when the need takes them relieve themselves wherever they want to. I ask what is the point. does anyone else get annoyed about this sort of thing? Thanks for letting me rant girls i am away to look at pictures of Ioan to make myself feel better. p.s I used slightly stronger language to get my point across and will be going to church tomorrow to say sorry :angry2:

It's not just in Ireland, Kaz, if that makes you feel any better - I've experienced/heard of similar things happening in Newcastle, London and Somerset to name a few. I think part of it's becoming less tolerant and more responsible as we get older (most of us), but it bugs the hell out of me too! :hug Enjoy Ioan and relax....... :sun

I've been wondering for ages where the fun is of drinking yourself stupid and I get annoyed when people relieve themselves wherever they want to. Unluckily, this is something that I've seen happen increasingly frequently in Italy, too.

So, zoo, what book are you reading? Maybe we can all read along? I am sure you are up to the challenge. Reading is an acquired skill. Use it or lose it. Good luck, GinaP :cool:

Post deleted by poster.

Kaz - Maybe it's a young guy thing to think that's fun. I feel your frustration.

Sorry Hil. What were the doctors to do besides operate, though? I'm afraid my mind has drawn a blank.

Brain surgery may be the standard procedure to treat brain tumours, but it might not be the right choice with an 82-year-old man with a serious and incurable lung disease and a wife about his age without the strength or resources to care for him during the rehabilitation ensuing the operation. Perhaps the option should have been considered to prescribe a palliative treatment so that he could spend as much of the little time he had left at home with his wife.